191030 - Limits to cause and effect



On [Stack Exchange][🍔] someone asked

Non Muslim person said he believes this world was created by Nature, and that things that happen in his life is due to karma. He doesn't seem to believe in Allah.

I tell him this Nature was created by Allah.

Then he asks so Who created Allah?

How can I answer to him? I know to answer him but our answer should be thinkable. So that's why.

One possible response

As'salaam | The source of peace
to you | u'Alykum.

God says in Chapter 87, | translating into English

87:9 So remind, perhaps the reminder will help.
87:10 He who is concerned will remember.
87:11 And he who is wicked will avoid it.

Sounds like the person you are speaking with is uncomfortable with anything outside the "cause" and "effect" relationship.

In other words, if everything must have a cause, then so too must "God" so-called. It's an age old argument that Aristotle tried to respond to with something called the Un-moved mover argument.

However, cause and effect is a temporal relationship.

But, God claims in 112:2 that Allah'hu'ṣamad. [Translators][📜] also seem to have a difficult time with that term, however one way of saying it | in English is that God is absolute, indivisible, eternal. Timeless.

God simply is, | in other words. God is a being, from which matter such as "nature" emerges.


Non Mulsim person said he believes this world was created by Nature

  • Yep, that's not an uncommon belief ⤵
  • and | Everyone is entitled to their beliefs
  • God says in 2:256

| translating into [English][🚕]

There is no compulsion in the system; the proper way has been clarified from the wrong way. Whoever rejects evil, and believes in God, indeed he has taken grasp of the strongest hold that will never break. God is Hearer, Knower.

  • You can try and respond like Abraham did in 2:258, however be prepared to move on ⤵
  • If this person is willing to accept that 'nature' has always existed, then why not God?

the things happened his life is karma

  • Cause and effect ⤵
  • Sure | No problem with that
  • In 2:25 God also tells us that the things we do will have an effect ⤵
  • Very positive effects if you also believe (āmanū waʿamilū l-ṣāliḥāt)

he doesn't believe Allah

  • Insha'allah (iff God wills)

... but Our answer should be thinkable ...

  • This my friend is not easy
  • There's no "reason" and "logic" based answer that everyone will agree to in 2019 for example | just to be clear, unless God wills
  • God has informed us of this in 2:6

Indeed, how can you expect someone who is 100% totally committed to cause and effect as the explanation to everything be okay with a stick turning into a snake as it did for Moses? See 26:32.


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